Christians have free will, while non-Christians do not.

Worshipping le beardead KIKE! KIKE! KIKE! REEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! is free will, not doing so is not
 
Demonic87 said:
Exactly! "Whatever" is the perfect response! You can't prove or disprove what I wrote. Unless you lived in that barbaric time of godless heathens, before they made up their shekel collecting, sky Daddy, nobody knows wtf went on back then. The only thing that's guaranteed throughout this dirtballs history is we live and we die. Get over it.
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Fine. You win. Your right. I can't prove it.
 
Christians don't have free will retard, non-Christians are capable of advanced technology like China while Christians are only capable of worshipping some ugly old bearded guy.
 
>Christians have free will, while non-Christians do not.
This doesn't make any sense.

This implies:
* Adam & Eve, Noah, Abraham, and everyone who wasn't a Christian before Jesus was born had no free will
* people who were adults who became Christian had no free will to BECOME Christian
* that means Christians who rape, pillage, murder, etc, WILLINGLY chose to do those things
* being an atheist who also rape, pillage, murder, etc, can get off scot free because they didn't willingly do those things; they have no responsibility over their actions
 
LordGrimThInvincible said:
I have mixed feeling on Christianity.

It was an ok religion for centuries, but now it has been subverted.

You ask 2 christians the same question, you get 2 different answers.

That is not what a true structured religion looks like.

the last time i went to church, ages ago, there was an orc priest calling foreskin pirates "our brothers" there.

If that is whatt present day "Christians" look like, i wpuld hate to see what the other guy's worshipers look like.

Anyway, I accept Beezlebub (Jesus) as my kang, so as to avoid the fire lake of oblivion.
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I consider myself "Christian" on principle, plus I don't need another reason for my Korean family to be disappointed in me.

But there's no way I can accept many of it's principles.

so like:
* I'm comfortable with accepting that there's a God, but I also accept that there is limited (at best) evidence of His existence in this universe
* on the flip side, I accept that God treats this universe like a programmer does with their own procedurally generated environments: it just works without God's intervention
* God created the universe via the Big Bang some 14.8-ish billion years ago
* there was no Garden of Eden, no Great Flood (not on Noah's worldly scale at least)... the Old Testament was effectively codified Berenstain Bears-esque stories: largely fictional, but still providing important lessons for the goat herders from 5000 years ago about the world around them and why they live the life they do. Like, just because the Berenstain Bears never existed, it doesn't mean their books warning about too much TV or eating too much junk food have no value.
* Jesus existed and was a pretty chill dude, but he was absolutely, 100% Human. He also absolutely existed, even if all of the historical evidence is limited to "his name was Jesus, he had a brother named James, was baptized, and then crucified by Pontius Pilate".
* the Romans killed Jesus for being a rabble-rouser, then he got entombed and that's it. Maybe his disciples took his body away after three days just to make it look like he was resurrected, but they probably burned him in a funeral pyre just to ensure his body is never found.
* Jesus is not coming back. He would've already done so by now. And if Jesus doesn't come back to save the world from the Holocaust, Holodomor, Gulags, etc, then I'm not holding my breath about Jesus coming back for anything else.
* Saul/Paul of Tarsus was 100% the reason why modern Christianity is the way it is: he basically turned his Fanon/headcanon bullshit ideas into real franchise lore. You think Disney Star Wars is bad...??!
* if it were up to me, the New Testament would be limited to the four Gospels, some of the random noncanon books (like the Gospel of Thomas), and NONE of Paul's bullshit. I'd also rename is Jesusism.
* The Trinity is stupid. Not because I don't understand it, but because it literally is stupid. It's all a gigantic cope from people who had a hard time dealing with monotheism back in the Roman times ("OK but what if we could still have three Gods, but then we all say it's just one God. That shouldn't cause us any issues, right?")
* the best Bible you can get is the Jefferson Bible: all the important useful lessons with NONE of the supernatural stories. Better yet, spring for a copy of the Skeptics Anotated Bible; it'll help guide you towards actual useful bits of the Bible and weed out all the dumb useless shit, like warning us from wearing garments that are woven from two different types of thread.
* God loves us all. At the same time, I kinda think God is indifferent to us all... like, I don't think he saw two soldiers during World War 1 and was like "which one is fighting for Me better? Ah, clearly the one that prayed for me harder". I don't think God plays favorites with anyone, any more than someone owns an ant arm and feels more connected to one specific worker ant over another.
* and don't get me started on the idea of trying to TRICK God, like "I know God told us to not to have sex before marriage, but I just put it in her butthole and didn't enjoy it, so that doesn't count, right?" This very premise is irrelevant because of how much God doesn't really care what we do... so have as much premarital sex you want.
* Ultimately tho, NO ONE knows what God wants. Even the Bible/Torah/Quran/etc are at best educated guesses. So my guess is just as good as another's, and that is why we have 15 million different flavors of Christianity: everyone tailoring it to suit a particular need for the moment, and focusing on one thing that Jesus said over another.
* personally, I'm a fan of "Jesus the Dirty Hippie who turns over shopkeeper tables at the temple and then feeds 5000 people" more than "Onward Christian Soldier Jesus with Antiheathen Kungfu Grip"
* HOWEVER, I absolutely feel that there is still value in religion and following a set of similar, shared values. Like, we as a human society want to see people be good people and not be assholes. And while some people are smart enough to self regulate without religion, clearly a lot of people need to be coerced to do good only because God can see them when they fuck up.
* God only exists through our actions, we keep God alive in a perpetual cround surfing. The minute we all die, so does God's time on Earth.
 
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fleacollerindustry said:
I consider myself "Christian" on principle, plus I don't need another reason for my Korean family to be disappointed in me.

But there's no way I can accept many of it's principles.

so like:
* I'm comfortable with accepting that there's a God, but I also accept that there is limited (at best) evidence of His existence in this universe
* on the flip side, I accept that God treats this universe like a programmer does with their own procedurally generated environments: it just works without God's intervention
* God created the universe via the Big Bang some 14.8-ish billion years ago
* there was no Garden of Eden, no Great Flood (not on Noah's worldly scale at least)... the Old Testament was effectively codified Berenstain Bears-esque stories: largely fictional, but still providing important lessons for the goat herders from 5000 years ago about the world around them and why they live the life they do. Like, just because the Berenstain Bears never existed, it doesn't mean their books warning about too much TV or eating too much junk food have no value.
* Jesus existed and was a pretty chill dude, but he was absolutely, 100% Human. He also absolutely existed, even if all of the historical evidence is limited to "his name was Jesus, he had a brother named James, was baptized, and then crucified by Pontius Pilate".
* the Romans killed Jesus for being a rabble-rouser, then he got entombed and that's it. Maybe his disciples took his body away after three days just to make it look like he was resurrected, but they probably burned him in a funeral pyre just to ensure his body is never found.
* Jesus is not coming back. He would've already done so by now. And if Jesus doesn't come back to save the world from the Holocaust, Holodomor, Gulags, etc, then I'm not holding my breath about Jesus coming back for anything else.
* Saul/Paul of Tarsus was 100% the reason why modern Christianity is the way it is: he basically turned his Fanon/headcanon bullshit ideas into real franchise lore. You think Disney Star Wars is bad...??!
* if it were up to me, the New Testament would be limited to the four Gospels, some of the random noncanon books (like the Gospel of Thomas), and NONE of Paul's bullshit. I'd also rename is Jesusism.
* The Trinity is stupid. Not because I don't understand it, but because it literally is stupid. It's all a gigantic cope from people who had a hard time dealing with monotheism back in the Roman times ("OK but what if we could still have three Gods, but then we all say it's just one God. That shouldn't cause us any issues, right?")
* the best Bible you can get is the Jefferson Bible: all the important useful lessons with NONE of the supernatural stories. Better yet, spring for a copy of the Skeptics Anotated Bible; it'll help guide you towards actual useful bits of the Bible and weed out all the dumb useless shit, like warning us from wearing garments that are woven from two different types of thread.
* God loves us all. At the same time, I kinda think God is indifferent to us all... like, I don't think he saw two soldiers during World War 1 and was like "which one is fighting for Me better? Ah, clearly the one that prayed for me harder". I don't think God plays favorites with anyone, any more than someone owns an ant arm and feels more connected to one specific worker ant over another.
* and don't get me started on the idea of trying to TRICK God, like "I know God told us to not to have sex before marriage, but I just put it in her butthole and didn't enjoy it, so that doesn't count, right?" This very premise is irrelevant because of how much God doesn't really care what we do... so have as much premarital sex you want.
* Ultimately tho, NO ONE knows what God wants. Even the Bible/Torah/Quran/etc are at best educated guesses. So my guess is just as good as another's, and that is why we have 15 million different flavors of Christianity: everyone tailoring it to suit a particular need for the moment, and focusing on one thing that Jesus said over another.
* personally, I'm a fan of "Jesus the Dirty Hippie who turns over shopkeeper tables at the temple and then feeds 5000 people" more than "Onward Christian Soldier Jesus with Antiheathen Kungfu Grip"
* HOWEVER, I absolutely feel that there is still value in religion and following a set of similar, shared values. Like, we as a human society want to see people be good people and not be assholes. And while some people are smart enough to self regulate without religion, clearly a lot of people need to be coerced to do good only because God can see them when they fuck up.
* God only exists through our actions, we keep God alive in a perpetual cround surfing. The minute we all die, so does God's time on Earth.
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The Saul story is quite empowering. Even if the religious context is not believed, the fact that he decided to just go for it and do SOMETHING despite being blind is a useful message for anyone who hesitates to make important decisions in her or his life.

You complain that there’s too much weirdness and illogic and lack of proof in the Bible, but then you go on to proclaim YOUR own version and beliefs which don’t have much factual support. It’s okay to have opinions, but you’ve set up a bit of a dichotomy between the messages of the Good Book and your personal interpretations.
 
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