R any of U people 1 of those weightlifting lunkheads?

[Quence]

I'd like to hear more of an explanation for why that would be.

Is there some aspect of the powdering process which would interfere with the protease enzymes breaking down whey?

I was under the impression you absorbed MORE because it's already highly broken down, less chewing needed and all that.

If anything the concern is that it spikes quickly like sugar so you might run out.

that's why slow-digesting proteins like casein are taken before bed by some.

I actually prefer cottage cheese to that since I like the taste

Many nutrients derived from normal food are the result of those nutrients combining with other chemicals in the body in a process that has taken many thousands of years to develop in the human body. Protein powders/supplements created in a lab often are not efficiently processed by the body and are expelled in the urine, sweat, and other ways.

This is why you'll see guys who were raised in the country - the hinterlands - who never used supplements and protein powders and yet they are enormously strong and physically big men with excellent physiques. They had access to high quality real food and lots of it. Whole foods, meat, fish, eggs, milk, potatoes, healthy bread, and vegetables.

 

[tyc]

Many nutrients derived from normal food are the result of those nutrients combining with other chemicals in the body

Like how vitamin C helps with absorbing non-heme iron?

I suppose I'm looking for particular examples though. Are there some amino acids more needy of reagents/synergists?

Protein powders/supplements created in a lab often are not efficiently processed by the body and are expelled in the urine, sweat, and other ways.

If it makes a difference, I usually go for the concentrates because they're cheaper.

They're less processed than the isolates.

This is why you'll see guys who were raised in the country - the hinterlands - who never used supplements and protein powders and yet they are enormously strong and physically big men with excellent physiques. They had access to high quality real food and lots of it. Whole foods, meat, fish, eggs, milk, potatoes, healthy bread, and vegetables.

You can definitely get your protein from traditional sources, it's not like whey is a must, to me it's just more of a cheap convenience that's easy to store and stir up in some water.

I'll take a roasted chicken over powder most days of course.

 

[Quence]

You can definitely get your protein from traditional sources, it's not like whey is a must, to me it's just more of a cheap convenience that's easy to store and stir up in some water.

I'll take a roasted chicken over powder most days of course.

That's the idea. Instead of gulping down those nasty powdered drinks, have some hardboiled eggs on hand that you can quickly peel and consume.

Also, I think weightlifters/bodybuilders overestimate how much protein they really need on a daily basis. It's important to consume balanced meals.

 

[tyc]

I boil them like a pansy and flavor them with mustard and paprika.

Feels pathetic, I should be swallowing them raw and WHOLE whole including shell for calcium.

I think you're correct about overestimation. I'd rather "slightly too much" than "slightly too little" but then some go WAY overboard.

For me it's just if there isn't a meat with a meal (like pizza, peperoni slices aren't enough) that I'll sometimes think to do a scoop w/ half glass of water.

 

[Quence]

If it makes a difference, I usually go for the concentrates because they're cheaper.

They're less processed than the isolates.

But do they actually work? I bet that real unbiased studies of these lab-made concentrated proteins would show they're not all that effective. You'd be better off having a glass of milk or kefir (a very nutritious milk product that's common in eastern europe) and an egg or some nuts.

 

[Quence]

I boil them like a pansy and flavor them with mustard and paprika.
Feels pathetic, I should be swallowing them raw and WHOLE whole including shell for calcium.

I think you're correct about overestimation. I'd rather "slightly too much" than "slightly too little" but then some go WAY overboard.

For me it's just if there isn't a meat with a meal (like pizza, peperoni slices aren't enough) that I'll sometimes think to do a scoop w/ half glass of water.

I would recommend not eating raw eggs if you can help it. They can make you very sick.

Also, some people simply get too much protein. It has something to do with the body getting too used to masses of protein and then it's not used efficiently. Some lifters have 1 meatless day per week and they say it resets their body and they get bigger gains the rest of the week when they do eat protein.

 

[tyc]

But do they actually work?
I bet that real unbiased studies of these lab-made concentrated proteins would show they're not all that effective.
You'd be better off having a glass of milk or kefir (a very nutritious milk product that's common in eastern europe) and an egg or some nuts.

What is your opinion on the consumption of traditional whey (ie what Goldilocks ate w/ her curds) without it being powdered?

I don't know if I have the perspective to tell how much bias could influence a particular study...

How much protein can the body use in a single meal for muscle-building? Implications for daily protein distribution

Controversy exists about the maximum amount of protein that can be utilized for lean tissue-building purposes in a single meal for those involved in regimented resistance training. It has been proposed that muscle protein synthesis is maximized in young ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

that one interestingly ranked higher muscle synthesis by dividing an amount into 4 servings instead of 8 or 2

 

[Quence]

What is your opinion on the consumption of traditional whey (ie what Goldilocks ate w/ her curds) without it being powdered?

I don't know if I have the perspective to tell how much bias could influence a particular study...

How much protein can the body use in a single meal for muscle-building? Implications for daily protein distribution

Controversy exists about the maximum amount of protein that can be utilized for lean tissue-building purposes in a single meal for those involved in regimented resistance training. It has been proposed that muscle protein synthesis is maximized in young ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

that one interestingly ranked higher muscle synthesis by dividing an amount into 4 servings instead of 8 or 2

I'm pretty dubious about many of the claims originating in the dietary supplement industry.


In 2010 a panel of the European Food Safety Authority examined health claims made for whey protein. For the following claims either no references were provided for the claimed effect or the provided studies did not test the claims, or reported conflicting results:

• Increase in satiety leading to a reduction in energy intake
• Contribution to the maintenance or achievement of a normal body weight
• Growth or maintenance of muscle mass
• Increase in lean body mass during energy restriction and resistance training
• Reduction of body fat mass during energy restriction and resistance training
• Increase in muscle strength
• Increase in endurance capacity during the subsequent exercise bout after strenuous exercise
• Skeletal muscle tissue repair
• Faster recovery from muscle fatigue after exercise.

On the basis of the data presented, the 2010 panel concluded that a cause and effect relationship between the consumption of whey protein and these claims had not been established.

 

[nelson]

wtf are you faggots babbling about

 

[tyc]

I'm pretty dubious about many of the claims originating in the dietary supplement industry.

Same.

In 2010 a panel of the European Food Safety Authority examined health claims made for whey protein.
For the following claims either no references were provided for the claimed effect or the provided studies did not test the claims, or reported conflicting results:

• Increase in satiety leading to a reduction in energy intake
• Contribution to the maintenance or achievement of a normal body weight
• Growth or maintenance of muscle mass
• Increase in lean body mass during energy restriction and resistance training
• Reduction of body fat mass during energy restriction and resistance training
• Increase in muscle strength
• Increase in endurance capacity during the subsequent exercise bout after strenuous exercise
• Skeletal muscle tissue repair
• Faster recovery from muscle fatigue after exercise.

On the basis of the data presented, the 2010 panel concluded that a cause and effect relationship between the consumption of whey protein and these claims had not been established.

As compared to what, other sources of protein like meat? Consuming nothing but table sugar? Fasting?

If it's just "whey doesn't help more than chicken" then that sounds about right. I don't really think there's anything magical about it.

I see the benefits above as basically "the good part about whole proteins with the 8 essentials, in general" and as another option for avoiding a deficiency.

The only special thing I can recall about whey was maybe something to do with immunoglobins (apparently removed in isolates but not concentrates) which isn't a factor ruled out in your list.

wtf are you faggots babbling about

BCAAs and circulating AA pools of course.

 

[nelson]

this looks suspiciously like quence having a conversation with himself

 

[Quence]

Same.



As compared to what, other sources of protein like meat? Consuming nothing but table sugar? Fasting?

If it's just "whey doesn't help more than chicken" then that sounds about right. I don't really think there's anything magical about it.

I see the benefits above as basically "the good part about whole proteins with the 8 essentials, in general" and as another option for avoiding a deficiency.

The only special thing I can recall about whey was maybe something to do with immunoglobins (apparently removed in isolates but not concentrates) which isn't a factor ruled out in your list.


BCAAs and circulating AA pools of course.

My guess is that the tested claims were not compared to other sources of protein (but the actual studies may say otherwise). Rather, they were probably tested against some sort of baseline of generalized human health.

Of course, it's important to remember that the claimed health benefits from the consumption of whey are apparently just that: claims. There may be some high quality tests and studies that have used a large sample size to definitively prove those claims, but I have not seen them.

 

[TinFoilHatGuy]

quence having a conversation with itself
FtfY
Also, quence, duke of nimonia, magalicious, and now this new troll joequandorkius or whatever... my theory is they're all the same blobfish that keeps sprouting heads like some biblical babble-on-ian multiple cock mongling monster that literally can not. Stop. Sucking. Dick.

 

[SK2.0]

wtf are you faggots babbling about

Pedo guy is engaging our resident tranny because nobody else would talk to his degenerate ass.

 

[tyc]

My guess is that the tested claims were not compared to other sources of protein
(but the actual studies may say otherwise).

I'm assuming you were referencing https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/1818 whose PDF is at https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2010.1818

I'm reading that now.

Rather, they were probably tested against some sort of baseline of generalized human health.

I would think some amount of protein consumption is assumed in generalized baselines.

Pg 11/28 is where I begin to notice something relevant.

"the effects of a whey isolate supplement (n = 6) and of a casein supplement (n = 7) provided in addition to the usual diet on strength and body composition during a 10-week intense resistance training programme"​

Seems to support some benefits:

Body fat mass significantly decreased in the whey protein group (-1.5 0.5 kg) compared to casein (+0.2 0.3 kg, p<0.01),
whereas lean body mass significantly increased in the whey isolate group (4.99 ± 0.25 kg, P <0.01) compared to the
casein group (0.81 ± 0.43 kg).
While a significant increase in strength was observed in both groups (p<0.05),
such increase was significantly higher in the whey isolate group in all three exercises (p<0.05) compared to the casein group

Of course we don't exactly know what "the usual diet" was. It could simply have been protein-deficient. All this may necessarily show is that the body is able to use amino acids derived from casein powder or whey powder, but not that either is necessarily better than other protein sources.

Of course, it's important to remember that the claimed health benefits from the consumption of whey are apparently just that: claims.
There may be some high quality tests and studies that have used a large sample size to definitively prove those claims, but I have not seen them.

I guess I'm not sure if you're looking for:

1) benefits above and beyond other protein sources (ie ground beef or tunafish)​

2) just that it can provide the generic benefits that exist from having adequate protein intake to fill the body's needs​

If what you're looking for is merely (2) then the strength gains shown (3.74-4.24 kg for whey, 0.38-1.24kg for casein) in the study above seems to support that.

I don't know if that necessarily means it's as digestible/convertable as other sources. For that you'd need something like "100g whey supplement vs 100g tuna supplement vs 100g beef supplement" kind of study, I guess. "Supplementing helped the subjects" isn't exactly "we proved the supplement is as good as other supplements".

Except of course to show that whey outperformed casein, at least with how this was constructed.

I'm not 100% convinced casein lacks a niche role for before-bedtime supplementation where it's better to take that than whey. Though that may only apply to uber-bodybuilders whose bodies want to metabolize muscle at the slightest hint of scarcity and not the genpop.

Pedo guy is engaging our resident tranny because nobody else would talk to his degenerate ass.

interest piqued, how passable? occasionally feel kinda pan-flexible tbh but it's hard for IRLs to compete with Bridget, hard for 3DPD to measure up

 

[Quence]

I'm assuming you were referencing https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/1818 whose PDF is at https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2010.1818

I'm reading that now.


I would think some amount of protein consumption is assumed in generalized baselines.

Pg 11/28 is where I begin to notice something relevant.

"the effects of a whey isolate supplement (n = 6) and of a casein supplement (n = 7) provided in addition to the usual diet on strength and body composition during a 10-week intense resistance training programme"​

Seems to support some benefits:


Of course we don't exactly know what "the usual diet" was. It could simply have been protein-deficient. All this may necessarily show is that the body is able to use amino acids derived from casein powder or whey powder, but not that either is necessarily better than other protein sources.



I guess I'm not sure if you're looking for:

1) benefits above and beyond other protein sources (ie ground beef or tunafish)​

2) just that it can provide the generic benefits that exist from having adequate protein intake to fill the body's needs​

If what you're looking for is merely (2) then the strength gains shown (3.74-4.24 kg for whey, 0.38-1.24kg for casein) in the study above seems to support that.

I don't know if that necessarily means it's as digestible/convertable as other sources. For that you'd need something like "100g whey supplement vs 100g tuna supplement vs 100g beef supplement" kind of study, I guess. "Supplementing helped the subjects" isn't exactly "we proved the supplement is as good as other supplements".

Except of course to show that whey outperformed casein, at least with how this was constructed.

I'm not 100% convinced casein lacks a niche role for before-bedtime supplementation where it's better to take that than whey. Though that may only apply to uber-bodybuilders whose bodies want to metabolize muscle at the slightest hint of scarcity and not the genpop.


interest piqued, how passable? occasionally feel kinda pan-flexible tbh but it's hard for IRLs to compete with Bridget, hard for 3DPD to measure up

Unfortunately, I cannot access the PDF or the HTML versions of that report. However, some of the data you posted from the report does seem to be in conflict with the conclusion the 2010 European Food Safety Authority arrived at in my previous post on this matter. I don't know if the conclusion was incorrect or the data you cited was not accurate.

 

[ASSBLONKER]

It's my understanding that the powders are not processed in the body like real food. Protein powders and vitamins tend to get excreted in your waste rather than being used by the body.

ALWAYS choose good healthy food over pills and powders.

THIS IS UNTRUE THEYRE SUPPLEMENTS 2 UR NUTRITION...IF UR AN ATHLETE THE BONUS PROTEIN WILL BENEFIT URR NITROGEN BALANCE &/ PROTEIN SYNTHESIS EVEN THO GENERALY A LOT OF PROTEIN GETS EXCTRACTED IN UR URINE. PROTEIN SHOULDNT BE USED AS A REPLACEMENT FOR A MEAL..... ALSO CREATINE IS A GOOD SUPLEMENT...

 

[ASSBLONKER]

MY SOURCE IS MYSELF CUZ I WAS A NATIONNAL LEVEL ATHLETE A& NTOT SOME PUDGY FAT 50 YEAR OLD FAGGOT . THERES UR SOURCE. TAKE SUOPPLEMENTS IF U WAJNT TO IMPROVE UR PERFORMANCE

 

[Quence]

THIS IS UNTRUE THEYRE SUPPLEMENTS 2 UR NUTRITION...IF UR AN ATHLETE THE BONUS PROTEIN WILL BENEFIT URR NITROGEN BALANCE &/ PROTEIN SYNTHESIS EVEN THO GENERALY A LOT OF PROTEIN GETS EXCTRACTED IN UR URINE. PROTEIN SHOULDNT BE USED AS A REPLACEMENT FOR A MEAL..... ALSO CREATINE IS A GOOD SUPLEMENT...

If you’re an athlete, you can and should get all the nutrition you need from consuming quality foods. Supplements and protein powders are a waste of money.

 

[Quence]

MY SOURCE IS MYSELF CUZ I WAS A NATIONNAL LEVEL ATHLETE A& NTOT SOME PUDGY FAT 50 YEAR OLD FAGGOT . THERES UR SOURCE. TAKE SUOPPLEMENTS IF U WAJNT TO IMPROVE UR PERFORMANCE

I was a Division 1 collegiate athlete and I had to compete against boot-lipped negroes. Although supplements and powders were available to me, I refused to put that garbage in my body because I knew there was no benefit to it. It was and is just snake oil.